I had a friend who told me a story. It's one of those stories that ends with "well, what would YOU have done?" So I asked him to write it out as a guest blog (changing the names) so that I could pose the story, and inevitable questions, to my readers. So without further adieu, here's a guest post...
If I could give you the superhero power of omniscience would you take it? Up until this past weekend I'd have been a big fan of 'all knowledge' - but I'm not so sure anymore.
To set the stage, three old friends Pete, his wife Suzy and me are attempting to catch up on a year's drinking, catching up on lost time since they last saw each other at Pete and Suzy's wedding about a year ago. I was Pete’s best-man. There was wine, G&T and a good time being had by all. Names have, of course, been changed to protect the guilty. I suspect that no-one is innocent.
Suzy who weighs 100 pounds dripping wet is, to be frank, a candy-ass when it comes to drinking. Straight to the peak and over the other side she goes, and at 1:30 am she is passed out on the couch and we pick up the story when us guys decide on one more drink before they quit.
I can't say I'm sure how this happened but a bottle and half of bourbon later the two of us are pretty shitty drunk. As we got more and more blotto so the conversation became more graphic . Lets just say that every bachelor party story (not the r-rated version), as well as discourses on what precisely the guys would fancy doing to their mutual female acquaintances are discussed. No holds-barred, nothing held back. If a fly on the wall could have heard the story the two of them weaved; these vignettes of fact and fantasy and general naughtiness would have made it blush. (had it evolved blush genes).
Speaking of which - apparently Suzy woke up during the course of the conversation and lay there listening to the boys. I can't blame her, I probably would have too, but she is err 'treated' to a discussion of all of her friends and what the guys would like to do to them. In case you think there was anything noble about the conversation - there was none. Nothing held back. Complete disclosure (and I’m not proud) name, body part etc… Who said what is still unclear. It seems some brain cells might have got killed during the night.
Comes 5:00am Pete and I are torn. Suddenly Suzy sits up and goes to bed. We think this is probably a good idea and follow her example.
9:30 am - I stumble through to the lounge and see her sitting on the couch where she has been since 5:00 am, replaying the whole conversation in her mind. I'm still drunk and feeling a little like there is half-decomposed gerbil sleeping in my mouth.
"I heard you guys taking last night" she says through gritted teeth. Her knees are pulled up to her chest and she has a pillow on her lap. You get the idea. Instant sobriety.
"What did you hear", I ask. (fuck fuck fuck what did I say , what did Pete say, fuck again).
"Everything" (fuck some-more).
In a rare moment of clarity I say "you should have joined us then ... or gone to bed".
"I know" she says quietly - "but I wanted to hear what you guys talk about, and now I know".
"I think I've lost some respect for both of you". She has gained what few women get to know, how guys think when they let down their guard. You have to understand, that I very seldom have these conversations, and my man Pete and I have never discussed such things, except in passing. If you guys are inclined, as I was, to blame Suzy for listening in - imagine hearing your wife and her friend talking about screwing the daylights out of your mate. You have to admit it would hurt.
So I sit down with her and explain that every guy has the spice channel running through their heads from the age of about 14. That most of us can ignore the playboy channel playing in our heads when we choose to. That every guy is thinking about sex most of the time and the only guy friends she knows who have not at least contemplated doing the nasty with her are gay (and they are thinking about Pete that way). I also assure her that we would never talk about her that way, just in case she thought we did, and that no, the only other women we think about in bed is the Queen (her Royal milky thighs can buy you another 5 minutes - I'm just saying). [Note from Rob: The author of this guest blog is British... so he's referring to the Queen of England]
So she has all of this rattling around in her head now. Admittedly she doesn't have complete knowledge - only the words of 2 drunken friends getting their drink on. Most guys suspect that if all women could look in our head for 15 minutes the synchronous slap would alter the rotation of the earth. She knows, and now has to live with this. Hung-over Pete now knows that she knows (Suzy told him when he woke up). I know that she is disappointed in me too which upsets me more than I would have suspected. Everyone knows everything. Still want the superhero power ? Pete doesn’t know that I talked this through with Suzy. I wouldn’t want someone else in a private issue between my wife and I and can’t imagine Pete would either.
As a post script I call my wife after I got out of Dodge on with my proverbial tail between my legs. After giving her a précis of the events, my wife says “All guys are like this though. You’re all like an East-German railway, one track and dirty". For the record I really dig my wife but then she didn't hear the story did she? She says she would have gone to bed and left us alone, but if she heard what Suzy heard would she dig me back ?
The questions for this august body of Rob's friends are :
1. What would you have done if you were Suzy - would you have listened in ?
2. What would you have done with knowledge? You can't un-ring this bell. Now there is a wound in your memory and maybe an issue in your marriage?
3. I have lost some of the esteem of a friend. Would you do or say anything further if you were me?
4. How about Pete - how would you respond to your wife hearing you talk about nailing one of her closest friends?
All I can say is that the next time someone asks me if I want to know it all, I'll probably pass. Invisibility cloak is also out, so I’ll take the ability to fly.
5 comments:
I'm big on personal privacy. You won't ever catch me rifling through someone's things. Now, that being said, I don't know if I would have acted any differently than the wife that night. I probably would have listened. But I wouldn't have acted the same way the next morning. I would have brought it up differently. I definitely would have brought it up... but just differently.
1. I would have listened in. I know I would have. (grimace) And I know how that reflects on me, as another woman. But to be fair, if it was a couple of my FEMALE friends, talking about what they would do to my significant other or mutual male friends, I would listen, too. I think it's that human flaw called curiosity that, like blushing genes (that was cute), we've each evolved. We don't really know anyone until we've seen them without any inhibitions.
2. Personally, I might try as hard as possible to brush it off. (and see #4) I'm betting if Suzy turned her critical eye on herself and her own carnal feelings, she might find some empathy. Unless she's frigid and doesn't look at other men with any interest.
3. Don't do anything further. Leave it alone. Let Pete, if he can smooth it over, be the one to make it any better. Doing anything more would indicate your shame, which would justify any of her judgmental, negative ideas about it.
4. Oh my god, I have no idea what Pete should do. Really, that's so tough. I guess... we're all human? But a relationship is hard enough without throwing in added trust issues. Pete's just going to have be on his A-game for a while. And I hope that Suzy would believe that he'd be a faithful husband.
I don't know what I'd do if I were her, though. In the back of my mind, there'd always be a question about how much he'd want to cheat with said closest friend. And would she? Was there ever a spark between them I didn't notice before..?--and so on and so on.
Then again, in the spirit of full disclosure, I've got cheating baggage, and my own biases. Other women might not get tripped up on all of that.
Last thought: in a way I was initially sort of pissed at Suzy. Her overreaction to the situation seemed irritating. Because once again it seems like more evidence that men can't talk to women without females reacting negatively.
But then I read it again. And I noticed that there was an indication that specifics about body parts and activities were included in the conversation, too. That'd probably bother me more. That the guys had gotten "that far" or that detailed. Meaning they'd thought about it longer than a brief "I'd hit that." And then we go back to the whole "how did I miss this" self-blame stream of thought.
Ugh, women are messy. I know this. But that conversation just didn't help. It's just a bad situation all around. Really sorry. :/
I think all humans, male or female, have their sexual fantasies about anyone they find attractive. I don't think this is the issue though. We have all looked at our significant others friends in a sexual way, we all wonder what someone would be like in bed and we are animals so by nature we are attracted to other animals.
If I was Suzy I would probably have listened in but then joined in at some point but since I am a little on the open side I would probably have had something to contribute. However, I would not want to hear my husband talking about his fantasy for my friends. I feel this would then cause problems in the marriage. To say one's friend is hot or attractive is one thing, to explicitly hear what my husband would want to do to my friend is something else entirely.
Women and Men aren't that different in their thinking and just as many men would be shocked by what we women think on a daily or constant basis about sex. I wouldn't fault my husband for having sexual fantasies about people we know because I do to, I just wouldn't want to hear about them, that would cause an issue I think between husband and friend.
I think it's important that people understand though that sexuality is something inherent in all people and it doesn't turn off when marriage or a serious relationship happens. We all need to have our fantasies and feel able to express ourselves sexually and be open with our partners about what we want and what we like. I could go on forever about it but all in all I think the conversation was in innocence and without intent to act on anything. People get drunk and the first place they go is sex... I think Pete and friend shouldn't be labeled pigs or be chastised for their behavior. I can only imagine what people would think if they saw in my head.
As the wife, i would've listened in until i heard my husband saying anything more than, "yeah, she's hot", etc. As soon as body parts 'n stuff started entering the dialogue, i would've gotten up off the sofa and nipped the conversation in the bud. Shame on him for allowing those thoughts airtime (thoughts are one thing, but spoken words are another), but shame on her for allowing herself to hear too much.
Pete's screwed, btw.
What's G&T?
She shouldn't have listened and should have given her husband and friend some privacy (pronounced with a short "i" since we're all brits here)
If I heard something that made me upset at my wife I'd talk to her about it and work it out...but seriously, how could she not know these things about men? About her husband? Seriously?
I wouldn't do or say anything further. You were just being who you are, and you didn't do anything wrong. If you had talked about that hobo you killed back in 96 and spent some time trying to remember where you buried his body, that would be different. This was just talk. If she can't handle it its her fault and she should get over it in her own time.
I don't, for one second, assume that I'm the ONLY person in the world my wife finds attractive. I'm sure she talks about Milton Berle's legendary genitals when she and her friends are together. However, I also have no doubt whatsoever she would ever ACT on any of that talk. Talk is just that, talk.
Also, what the hell were you thinking talking about that when she was in the room? Didn't you think that maybe there was a chance she'd would wake up right when you started talking about lubing up and making love to the sole's of her sister's feet? I'm sure you realize it now, but a fairly foolish decision on both your parts. But you were also pretty drunk, so I guess these things happen.
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